Lots of pdf's and some pictures of the cartridge. It's beastly.
|From 300BLK Site|
|From 300BLK Site|
|Image from Gear Scout|
As interesting as a new caliber is to some of us, it gets better. Start thinking about a M4 with a 9″ barrel that has 37% more energy than 5.56mm M855 from a 16″ barrel (the standard M4 is a 14.5″).The new cartridge is 7.62x35mm. From the Gear Scout article:
Current ammunition types are the 123 gr. MC 300BLK, 155 gr. OTM 300BLK, and 220 gr. SUBSONIC OTM 300BLK.The plan was to build something with similar ballistics to the ol' 7.62x39, and that could use current magazines without a loss of capacity. AAC already has a can in the works as well (looks like buying them up was a smart move by Cerberus more and more every day.)
We plan to file the federal lawsuit against Madison tomorrow.
In addition to WCI as an organization, our attorneys have suggested that our case has better standing if we add some individual WCI members as plaintiff's.
Because of the memo that the Madison Police Department issued, our attorneys maintain that there has been a chilling effect on the ability of WCI members to exercise their right to carry in Madison for fear of police harassment/unlawful detainment.
If you live or work in Madison and are concerned about getting detained/unlawfully searched/firearm seized during a non-consensual stop, please contact me asap.
Being added as a plaintiff means that you would be listed on the official complaint. You would not need to speak to media at all (in fact we would prefer you do not) but you may at some point be deposed during the lawsuit so that we can prove that Madison's unconstitutional policy of detaining people merely because they are OC'ing is infringing on people's right to carry.
Please send me an email asap if you live or work in Madison and are reluctant to carry their for fear of unlawful police contact.
Chairman/President - Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
that if all the guns were gone that there would be "a 100,000 percent increase in school bludgeonings"Some people just can't wrap their heads around the fact that tools are just tools and that some people are just prone to violence, regardless of the tools on hand.
|Damn I look good!|
Wisconsin Carry, Inc. is filing a federal lawsuit against the Madison Police Department.
We are fast-tracking this lawsuit.
Before the incident at Culvers we were already preparing to file another lawsuit in the next week or two for a previous incident with a different municipality from this past summer. As such, in consideration of those legal costs, we could use some contributions specifically for the "Madison 5" lawsuit.
If you would like to contribute to fund specifically the lawsuit for the "Madison 5" Culvers incident there is a you may contribute via our website.
Contributions from the donate button on the homepage will go specifically towards the federal lawsuit and also the attorney that will be retained if need be on behalf of the "Madison 5" to fight their unlawful DC charges.
Donations may be mailed to:
Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
P.O. Box 270403
Milwaukee, WI 53227
Please indicate "Madison 5 lawsuit" on the memo field of the check
Chairman/President - Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
Have a good time staying at home. While legal, it's inappropriate and aggressive to pack your little pistols in public places. We won't miss you or the childish displays of constitutional freedoms.
District 3 Alder
For Immediate Release: Sep 22, 2010
For More Information Contact: Joel DeSpain (608)266-4897
OPEN CARRY & THE MPD
New Charges To Be Issued Regarding Culver's Incident
The Madison Police Department (MPD) has conducted a review of an incident that took place this past Saturday night at Culver's Frozen Custard restaurant, 4301 East Towne Blvd. Based upon the further investigation, Chief Noble Wray has concluded the appropriate charge for all 5 armed individuals is Disorderly Conduct (DC). Accordingly, DC citations will be issued, and Obstructing a Peace Officer tickets given to two will be rescinded.
Officers were dispatched to the restaurant around 6:50 p.m. after a 62-year old Madison woman called 911. She had just observed several men with handguns in holsters enter the crowded Culver's restaurant. In her initial statement to officers, she stated" I didn't know what the law was, and I thought I should at least call so the police can come and check it out cause I didn't want to be that one person that saw guns and didn't call, and then have something terrible happen". In a follow-up interview with detectives, she further stated that she thought it was very odd that these individuals with guns would be at a family place. She noted she felt somewhat "rattled" and also "felt uneasy" about the subjects having the handguns at the family restaurant. She went on to say that they all appeared calm, but noted "people who shoot up restaurants also look calm before it happens." She did state that she was very concerned that if she didn't make the call and something did happen, she would feel horrible.
The MPD made contact Saturday night with the five men who were openly carrying handguns. Upon officers' requests, three of five produced identification so that officers could determine they were not convicted criminals. Two of five refused to produce identification and were issued Obstructing a Peace Officer citations. It was determined they were not felons and handguns were returned.
The officers were faced with an ambiguous situation. When responding to investigate suspicious - or potentially dangerous - circumstances, police must:
• Preserve or Restore Order and Public Safety.
• Investigate whether a crime had been committed, was being committed, or was about to be committed.
• Protect the Constitutional Rights of those involved.
The complainant's statement clearly reveals that she recognized the potential for violence from these armed men, and it was this fear that motivated her call to police. On the basis of this fact, the MPD will be rescinding the 2 obstructing citations. They were issued in error. Instead, citations for City Ordinance DC will be given to those who engaged in the behavior that led to the need for police to be called.
The DC statute does not require an actual disturbance take place, only that conduct in question is of a type that tends to cause or provoke a disturbance
Chief Wray wants to make clear: It is the department's wish that concerned citizens call 911 when they see armed subjects.
Following Saturday's incident, he sent an internal memo to all officers:
MPD officers regularly are dispatched to reports of individuals who are armed with firearms. When responding to these incidents, officers should:
• Approach the suspect using the proper tactical response. The individual should be contacted, controlled, and frisked for weapons if appropriate. Officers should separate the suspect from any weapons in his/her possession during the encounter.
• Officers should conduct a thorough investigation to determine whether any violations of state statute or city ordinance have occurred. Some of the relevant offenses to consider include:
• Carrying a Concealed Weapon (§941.23)(Official Release from the City of Madison)
• Disorderly Conduct (§947.01)
• Carrying a Firearm in Public Building (§941.235)
• Carrying Handgun Where Alcohol Beverages May be Sold and Consumed (§941.237)
• Being a Felon in Possession of a Firearm (§941.29)
• Safe Use and Transportation of Firearms (§167.31)
• Possession of Short-Barreled Shotgun or Short-Barreled Rifle (§941.28)
• Gun-free School Zones (§948.605)
• Possession of a Dangerous Weapon by a Person Under 18 (§948.60)
• Endangering Safety by Use of Dangerous Weapon (§941.20)
• Officers should verify that the firearm is not stolen, and attempt to verify that the person possessing the firearm is not legally barred from doing so (as a felon, due to an injunction, etc.). However, someone who has been detained is not legally obligated to provide identification to officers if no criminal ordinance violations have occurred. A person who refuses to provide identification should not be arrested for obstructing; however, if probable cause for another offense exists the suspect should be arrested for that offense and can then be identified during the citation or booking process.
• When responding to incidents involving subjects openly carrying firearms in public places, officers should investigate to determine whether the suspect's actions caused or were likely to cause a disturbance. The primary factors to be considered include the location, time of day and witness/bystander perceptions. Remember that the disorderly conduct statute does not require that an actual disturbance take place, only that the conduct in question be of a type that tends to cause or provoke a disturbance.
• It is my expectation that MPD officers encountering individuals who are armed with firearms in public places will take a pro-enforcement approach. If the investigation shows probable cause for a violation, the suspect should be arrested or cited.
However, Wisconsin law currently does not allow officers to arrest citizens simply for failing to identify themselves.
ICarry.org - Sept 20, 2010 Breaking News Release: Lessons from Wisconsin's Last Incident of Police Harassment of Citizens Lawfully Carrying Firearms in the Open(note: date should be Saturday, September 18th)
On Saturday, September 19th, a group of five responsible firearms owners gathered to share company and conversation at Culvers on Town Blvd in Madison, Wisconsin. Approximately eight Madison police officers approached the firearms owners who were enjoying food and discussion with one another.
Demanding identification of the gun owners, officers used intimidation and coercion in attempts to force the citizens to provide ID. State law does not allow officers to demand ID in circumstances like this, and Madison PD’s very own “legal updates” explains exactly why refusing to provide ID is not “obstructing.”
Despite this well-known aspect of law, at least two of the law-abiding firearms owners were arrested and cited with “obstructing” charges for not providing ID. All of the citizens were harassed in public, intimidated and coerced, and inconvenienced and humiliated by the disrespectful, diminishing, and suppressive behavior of Madison police officers.
ICarry.org would first like to thank Wisconsin Carry, Inc. for its steadfast resolve to protect citizens’ rights in Wisconsin. ICarry.org is committed to supporting Wisconsin Carry, Inc. and all responsible firearms owners in the state.
The vast majority of officers are well-trained to respect the rights of citizens openly carrying firearms. Over the past few years in Wisconsin, a great deal of education has been provided for police, and police throughout the state have been exhibiting exemplary performance. There have been only a select few isolated incidents of failure of training or behavioral problems with police.
ICarry.org would like to see this incident be the last. It’s time to accept and embrace the lawful practice of open carry. There is no need to discriminate or profile against open carriers – they should be afforded the same level of dignity and respect as all other peaceful citizens. Like police officers, they too carry a sidearm only for self-protection.
Saturday night at approximately 7:30 pm 5 Wisconsin Carry members were peaceably dining at a Culvers in Madison.I'll try to keep track of this one.
8 Madison Police officers arrived and demanded ID from our members. As Wisconsin is not a police-state, Wisconsin law does not require you to provide identification to an officer unless you are operating a motor vehicle.
2 Wisconsin Carry members, in consideration of their legal rights politely declined to provide ID and were handcuffed, detained, and issued citations for obstruction.
Wisconsin Case-Law clearly states that refusing to give your name is not grounds for obstruction.
"No law allows officers to arrest for obstruction on a person s refusal to give his orher name. Mere silence is insufficient to constitute obstruction." Henes v. Morrissey,194 Wis. 2d 339, 533 N.W.2d 802 (1995).
Wisconsin Carry filed suit against the Racine Police Department on January 8th 2010 for unlawfully arresting one of our members, Frank Hannon-Rock, on obstruction charges for refusing to provide ID. Wisconsin Carry obtained a $10,000 judgement against Racine in that case where the Racine City Attorney explains to the Racine City council that the officers did not have the authority to arrest Mr. Hannon-Rock.
audio of that encounter is available here:
Wisconsin Carry will be taking action against the Madison Police Department and the officers who illegally detained, handcuffed, searched, and cited our members.
Wisconsin Carry, Inc. is a non-profit Wisconsin corporation dedicated to the protection and expansion of the right of law-abiding Wisconsinites to carry in the manner of their choosing. www.wisconsincarry.org
Chairman/President - Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
For what it's worth, my tactical pants in the class were by Wrangler, and they come with two single 30-rd mag pouches, one right over each butt cheek. I can about guarantee that, should the balloon ever go up for real, those will be the pants in which I'll be fighting, so I reckoned I might as well practice fighting in them...